Comments on: Willow Arts Conference (or: On Excellence) http://radiate.aplacetoconnect.com/2006/06/19/willow-arts-conference-or-on-excellence/ An ongoing discussion about God, worship, music, the arts, soul care, and much more Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:13:04 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: d (in keeping with the theme) http://radiate.aplacetoconnect.com/2006/06/19/willow-arts-conference-or-on-excellence/#comment-146 d (in keeping with the theme) Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:48:59 +0000 http://radiate.aplacetoconnect.com/2006/06/19/willow-arts-conference-or-on-excellence/#comment-146 While it's true to a degree, what he says, Carson in general likes to position himself against pretty much anything that challenges the established way of things. There are alot of pastors out there who are very satisfied with their plodding, unimaginitive and often unsuccesful ministries to the lost because of this kind of thinking; they like to spiritualize their lack of excellence and lack of cultural sensitivity and define it is "more authentic" worship because its boundaries are loose or because there are low(or no) "production values." Or because "people are more important than production,' which is not a lie but a distortion of principle used, again, to justify a lack of concern for things such as artistic expression. Excellence-focused ministry and people-focused ministry are not antonymns. Further, when we do things not only well but with a mind for what will be effective in getting the world's attention (yes, our worhsip should be getting the world's attention), we are often better placed to succceed in reaching people. To be fair, you have to have both. Churches that focus on excellence in worship but do not have a heart for God do not succeed in the long-run. But another unfair assertion that many people who stand against churches like Willow make is that these churches must not really care about people. Willow would not have grown the way it has if the leadership and the people were not consumed with reaching and ministering to the lost. So yes, don't "worship worship," but don't spiritualize sloppiness or failure either. Doing things "low key" does not guarantee intimacy or spiritual tingles, and doing things poorly (with relation to what you've got) is sinful. While it’s true to a degree, what he says, Carson in general likes to position himself against pretty much anything that challenges the established way of things. There are alot of pastors out there who are very satisfied with their plodding, unimaginitive and often unsuccesful ministries to the lost because of this kind of thinking; they like to spiritualize their lack of excellence and lack of cultural sensitivity and define it is “more authentic” worship because its boundaries are loose or because there are low(or no) “production values.” Or because “people are more important than production,’ which is not a lie but a distortion of principle used, again, to justify a lack of concern for things such as artistic expression. Excellence-focused ministry and people-focused ministry are not antonymns. Further, when we do things not only well but with a mind for what will be effective in getting the world’s attention (yes, our worhsip should be getting the world’s attention), we are often better placed to succceed in reaching people. To be fair, you have to have both. Churches that focus on excellence in worship but do not have a heart for God do not succeed in the long-run. But another unfair assertion that many people who stand against churches like Willow make is that these churches must not really care about people. Willow would not have grown the way it has if the leadership and the people were not consumed with reaching and ministering to the lost.

So yes, don’t “worship worship,” but don’t spiritualize sloppiness or failure either. Doing things “low key” does not guarantee intimacy or spiritual tingles, and doing things poorly (with relation to what you’ve got) is sinful.

]]> By: jbrock http://radiate.aplacetoconnect.com/2006/06/19/willow-arts-conference-or-on-excellence/#comment-145 jbrock Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:24:25 +0000 http://radiate.aplacetoconnect.com/2006/06/19/willow-arts-conference-or-on-excellence/#comment-145 T~ I read your musings and then began reading Worship by the Book, edited by D.A. Carson and came across this quote. I don't share it to correct your perspective, because I feel like I know you heart. I share it to throw a little fuel on the fire of this posting. *********** Although there are things that can be done to enhance corporate worship, there is a profound sense in which excellent worship cannot be attained merely by pursuing excellent worship. In the same way that according to Jesus, you cannot find yourself until you lose yourself, so also you cannt find excellent corporate worship until you stop trying to find excellent corporate worship and pursue God himself. Despite the protestations, one sometimes wonders if we are beginning to worship worship rather than worship God. As a brother put it to me, it's a bit like those who begin by admiring the sunset and soon begin to admire themselves admiring the sunset. (pp. 30-31) ************* ~b T~

I read your musings and then began reading Worship by the Book, edited by D.A. Carson and came across this quote. I don’t share it to correct your perspective, because I feel like I know you heart. I share it to throw a little fuel on the fire of this posting.

***********

Although there are things that can be done to enhance corporate worship, there is a profound sense in which excellent worship cannot be attained merely by pursuing excellent worship. In the same way that according to Jesus, you cannot find yourself until you lose yourself, so also you cannt find excellent corporate worship until you stop trying to find excellent corporate worship and pursue God himself. Despite the protestations, one sometimes wonders if we are beginning to worship worship rather than worship God. As a brother put it to me, it’s a bit like those who begin by admiring the sunset and soon begin to admire themselves admiring the sunset. (pp. 30-31)

*************

~b

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